Everything Good Starts With a Conversation: James Martin on Relationships and Branding
- cgoucher
- Aug 10
- 6 min read
James Martin believes everything good in life starts with a conversation, including a twenty-five-year marriage and a career spent teaching people that a logo is never really the point.
Designs by James Martin James Martin Design work by James Martin
Your recently released book, No Bullsh*t Branding, is full of thoughtful surprises. My favourite was finding Debbie Millman's letter tucked away near the end. Of all the people you could have invited into the book, why did her voice feel like the right one?
Debbie is an extraordinary human, and I feel incredibly lucky to now call her a friend.
One of the greatest privileges has been spending time with her, watching her brain work, and hearing how she sees the world. She has a rare way of making you think differently by helping you ask better questions … I have never known anyone like her.
When I started writing this book, I knew I wanted to bring in a few friends with different perspectives. Too many design books can feel a little self-congratulatory, as though one person’s opinion is the only one that matters. I wanted this book to become another opportunity to introduce readers to brilliant people they might never otherwise have access to.
Debbie has seen it all. She has done it all. More importantly, she has navigated decades of continuous change with curiosity and bucket loads of generosity. She has built a career with a level of longevity that very few people will ever experience, and she continues to inspire generations of creatives through her podcast and educational endeavours.
She inspires me to keep going, to keep pushing the boundaries, and to keep showing up for both myself and the people around me.
For her to write the closing letter for this book feels perfect. In fact, I recon there should be a Debbie Millman mic drop at the end of every design book.
People often ask what pencil you use. I'm more curious ... why do you think we're so drawn to things made by hand?
I love making things.
I’m a collector at heart and have always had an affinity with the physical world. Anyone who has ever seen my office will know this is definitely not a lie. I love objects. I love little details. I love the stories that physical things carry with them.
I think, as humans, we’ve always been more drawn to things that have been made by hand than things that have been made en masse. There’s just something different about them and I believe we build an emotional attachment to them because we know there’s another human behind the effort.
In fact, I’m sure we all own something that, if we’re being completely honest, is executed pretty piss poorly. Maybe your kid made it. Maybe a friend made it. Maybe you made it yourself. Yet somehow it still takes pride of place in your home because of the memory it has created.
I have the most fun when I’m drawing, building physical things or tinkering around making forts with my son. Not only are those things more enjoyable, they’re also where I get to flex my creativity the most.
There’s something magical about starting with absolutely nothing and then holding something in your hands that didn’t exist before.
You spent ten years hoping to one day work alongside the team at Lincoln Design Co. Looking back, what did that season teach you?
Everything good in your life starts with a conversation.
I tell people this all the time.
I call it sandboxing now, but really it’s just something I’ve always done. I’ve always loved building relationships, starting conversations and keeping them alive.
I make it a point every day to reach out to a friend, an old colleague or even just reply to someone who’s taken the time to comment on my work.
The more conversations I start, the more relationships I build. The more relationships I build, the more opportunities naturally begin to appear.
Some conversations become friendships and some friendships become collaborations.
In fact, I wouldn’t have a son (Rocco) if I hadn’t started a conversation with my wife over 25 years ago in our local pub. That one small conversation changed the entire trajectory of my life.
That’s why I never underestimate the power of saying hello.
One thing that fascinates me about your process is that you present one logo instead of three polished options. When did you realize you weren't really presenting a logo, you were helping people believe in an idea?
My process has evolved over the years and continues to evolve as I learn more and more.
I’m incredibly collaborative with my clients because, in reality, a logo is only a small part of the system we’re building together.
We eventually arrive at one logo, but only after we’ve explored dozens of ideas, eliminated weaker directions and tinkered our way towards the strongest solution. I don’t just present a final answer. I bring my clients into the decision-making process so they understand why one direction deserves to "win" over the others.
One thing I always try to communicate is that, although they’ll have to live with the logo every day, it isn’t really for them.
It has a job to do.
Its job is to work within the wider brand system. To work in the real world, across products, websites, signage, packaging and social media. More importantly, it’s there to create recognition and build a connection with the people the business is trying to chat to on the daily.
I might get burnt at the stake for this but ... a logo doesn’t matter as much as many designers think it does, yet we place an extraordinary amount of pressure on its shoulders.
Figuring out what opportunity my clients want and then working towards that is the success metric.
In an interview, you mentioned designing about 100 logos every year. The thing that stood out to me wasn't the number, it was how much you still love drawing. Where does that joy come from?
This was quite a few years ago now, back when I was basically a logo vending machine … I’ll never be doing that again.
Drawing has always been a part of my process. I still write in a notebook and carry one with me everywhere I go.
Making notes, drawing and doodling ideas has always been the way I learn best.
It’s one habit that has stuck with me over the years, and probably the one I’m most proud of. It slows me down and forces me to put effort into my thinking rather than rushing to an answer.
I think visible effort will become a key differentiator as the creative world continues to change. As it becomes easier and easier to make things quickly, I believe we’ll place even more value on seeing the care, thought and effort that went into making them.
Reading about The Super Duper® Mentorship program, one line really stood out to me: "There is no future creative industry without creative people." At what point did helping creative people become just as important to you as branding itself?
I don’t know the answer to this.
I’ve always just tried to lead in the best way I can, and I once heard that, “Knowledge can only be called knowledge if you share it.”
I accidentally grew a community online, and now I feel a responsibility to do as much as I can for the people in it.
We win when we all win.
I’ll keep doing my bit to help make that happen.
Bonus Question: What are you wildly curious about right now that has absolutely nothing to do with branding?
Good walking trails ... I love a 4-6 hour hike on a Saturday morning.
There’s something quietly radical about how James treats a hello as the start of everything worth having. A career, a marriage, a mentorship community he never planned to build, he traces all of it back to someone simply saying hello first, and he’s still doing it, on purpose, every day.
Want to learn more about James? https://themadebyjames.com/
This series grows through word of mouth and the creative people who nudge me toward the next conversation. If someone comes to mind whose creativity inspires you, send them my way.
See you next week, Christine
